Does grading violate the freedom of speech? |
Response to responses: |
From: Larna MacHutchin Newsgroups: nwu.school.speech.class.comm-studies.c30 Subject: resonse to responses Date: 13 Feb 1997 21:46:41 GMT
> It is an amusing notion quite common in America that we are all endowed by I hope it was clear that it is precisely individuality that I was aiming at protecting. My fear was twofold: I was worried about the idea of being told to develop a more distinct personality (which is what my critique said). The fact is that my personality should be distinct on its own, because there is no other LARNA posting to the newsgroup. So, I completely agree with Professor Goodwin's comment above. My other fear was that the overall idea of grading the newsgroup participation, at least based on such subjective criteria, leaves room for a potential "chilling affect" like Kara referred to. This is where the worry comes in that everyone may try to write what they think the evaluators want, and therefore risk losing their individuality. I hope that clarifies a little. Also, what does this mean?
:> I hope it is not felt that I was speaking just for the sake of hearing myself. I genuinely thought out and cared about the post I wrote yesterday. However, an interesting note is that I don't necessarily completely agree with it. I think the memo contains some interesting ideas (if I do say so myself), but I am too conservative to say that grading should be completely thrown out the door. I actually liked Kara's suggestions, but really don't have a conclusion as of yet. I will let you know when I do, because that's just the type of PERSONALITY I have! (Ha Ha Ha) Happy early Valentine's Day (since I probably won't post tomorrow) Larna MacHutchin
From: jeangoodwin@nwu.edu (Jean Goodwin) Newsgroups: nwu.school.speech.class.comm-studies.c30 Subject: Re: resonse to responses Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:28:38 -0600 Uh-oh, tropes are getting me in trouble again. In article lfm531-1302970454080001@pistachio186183.nuts.nwu.edu, lfm531@lulu.acns.nwu.edu (Larna MacHutchin) wrote:
> Also, what does this mean? Nope! I mostly was pleased with how it sounded; if it was about anything, it was about Mr. Cohen, and also Mr. Johnson, whose activities we'll be encountering in a few weeks. Jean Goodwin.From: "Kara O'Brien" Newsgroups: nwu.school.speech.class.comm-studies.c30 Subject: Re: resonse to responses Date: 14 Feb 1997 02:29:38 GMT This is in response to Prof. Goodwin's quote:
> > Of course, when one stands up to the universe, it's also a good idea to A good statement (eloquent, even) -- but will you back it up? I mean, the graders are marking us down for not posting to a point near excess. I tend to follow your train of thought, or at least my interpretation of your train of thought in this quote. We shouldn't be forced to speak multiple times per week over issues that we might not have anything "that's worth" saying. Such coercion is certainly not conducive to the development of an "online-personality," much less the enthusiasm and passion that are usually necessary to backing a *strong* argument. (Not all of us here are professional debaters or aspiring lawyers who can successfully argue any side of any issue.) For participation grading purposes, once a week (a standard you yourself set at the beginning of the quarter) should suffice. Anyone agree (or disagree) with me on this one? Kara O'Brien From: Dana Friedlander Newsgroups: nwu.school.speech.class.comm-studies.c30 Subject: Re: resonse to responses Date: 14 Feb 1997 08:53:48 GMT In article 01bc1a1f$5f7d8060$53add4cd@kara-s-machine.nwu.edu, "Kara O'Brien" wrote: >I mean, the> graders are marking us down for not posting to a point near excess. I tend > to follow your train of thought, or at least my interpretation of your > train of thought in this quote. We shouldn't be forced to speak multiple > times per week over issues that we might not have anything "that's worth" > saying. Such coercion is certainly not conducive to the development of an > "online-personality," much less the enthusiasm and passion that are usually > necessary to backing a *strong* argument. (Not all of us here are > professional debaters or aspiring lawyers who can successfully argue any > side of any issue.) For participation grading purposes, once a week (a > standard you yourself set at the beginning of the quarter) should suffice. > Anyone agree (or disagree) with me on this one? I've been watching these posts go back and forth over the past few days, and I couldn't decide whether or not to add anything to the discussion, but I have been moved to speak. There are people who eagerly participate in this news group because they think that it's fun, interesting, intellectually stimulating, or whatever other personal reasons they may have. I, however, participate in this newsgroup because I feel I am forced to. I try to do my one post a week because I know that that was what I was initially told was acceptable and expected of me. But I feel like I'm competing with the people who post multiple times daily, and I don't think that I should have to compete against them. I check the newsgroup a couple of times a day, and half the time it seems to me that the posts (especially by people who do multiple ones with lengthy ties to classroom discussions and readings) are trying to say, "Look at me" to the graders. I don't want to post a message for the sake of posting. If I don't have anything to say, if I don't feel like sharing my opinions, or if the topics don't move me to speak, I don't post. My grade will suffer for it, but I am, as others have argued, exercising my right not to speak. Professor Goodwin said in one of her responses: > I personally think> that having a self is an _achievement_. Making that self evident to other > people is an even bigger achievement. How is it that forcing me to post to a newsgroup (lest my grade shall suffer) will make my self evident to other people? Because I am uninterested in participating in this whole discussion, do I have less of a self? I don't like being judged and graded by a message. These posts are not who I am--they're another part of the art of bullshit most of us have become experts at through our time here at college to get our grades, earn our credits, and walk out the door with diploma in hand. Dana Friedlander From: James S. Kang Newsgroups: nwu.school.speech.class.comm-studies.c30 Subject: Re: resonse to responses Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 09:33:17 GMT In article danaf-1402970300290001@axo218070.res-hall.nwu.edu, Dana Friedlander wrote: >In article <01bc1a1f$5f7d8060$53add4cd@kara-s-machine.nwu.edu>, "Kara>O'Brien" > >>I mean, the >> graders are marking us down for not posting to a point near excess. I tend >> to follow your train of thought, or at least my interpretation of your >> train of thought in this quote. We shouldn't be forced to speak multiple >> times per week over issues that we might not have anything "that's worth" >> saying. Such coercion is certainly not conducive to the development of an >> "online-personality," much less the enthusiasm and passion that are usually >> necessary to backing a *strong* argument. (Not all of us here are >> professional debaters or aspiring lawyers who can successfully argue any >> side of any issue.) For participation grading purposes, once a week (a >> standard you yourself set at the beginning of the quarter) should suffice. >> Anyone agree (or disagree) with me on this one? > > >I've been watching these posts go back and forth over the past few days, >and I couldn't decide whether or not to add anything to the discussion, >but I have been moved to speak. There are people who eagerly participate >in this news group because they think that it's fun, interesting, >intellectually stimulating, or whatever other personal reasons they may >have. I, however, participate in this newsgroup because I feel I am >forced to. I try to do my one post a week because I know that that was >what I was initially told was acceptable and expected of me. But I feel >like I'm competing with the people who post multiple times daily, and I >don't think that I should have to compete against them. I check the >newsgroup a couple of times a day, and half the time it seems to me that >the posts (especially by people who do multiple ones with lengthy ties to >classroom discussions and readings) are trying to say, "Look at me" to the >graders. I don't want to post a message for the sake of posting. If I >don't have anything to say, if I don't feel like sharing my opinions, or >if the topics don't move me to speak, I don't post. My grade will suffer >for it, but I am, as others have argued, exercising my right not to speak. >>I've been watching these posts go back and forth over the past few days, >and I couldn't decide whether or not to add anything to the discussion, >but I have been moved to speak. There are people who eagerly participate >in this news group because they think that it's fun, interesting, >intellectually stimulating, or whatever other personal reasons they may >have. I, however, participate in this newsgroup because I feel I am >forced to. I try to do my one post a week because I know that that was >what I was initially told was acceptable and expected of me. But I feel >like I'm competing with the people who post multiple times daily, and I >don't think that I should have to compete against them. Yeah, I feel like I'm competing against people who study upwards of 12 hours per day, and I don't think that I should have to compete against them.
I check the Uhuhuhuhuhououuhuuuhuh...blahbluhblauhbluuuuuooouuuuh....Look at me! I don't want to post a message for the sake of posting. If I>don't have anything to say, if I don't feel like sharing my opinions, or >if the topics don't move me to speak, I don't post. My grade will suffer >for it, but I am, as others have argued, exercising my right not to speak. Why, you should have been with Gandhi. You could have refused to turn in your homework or to post to newsgroups in the name of freedom while he was on his hunger strike.
>Professor Goodwin said in one of her responses:
I can't grade you, but I sure am going to judge you. Heh, heh. You know, I have to give you, uh, "mad props," or something. Refusing to do work and spinning the situation so that it seems justified on ideological grounds is pretty inventive. Nothing personal.
From: jeangoodwin@nwu.edu (Jean Goodwin) Newsgroups: nwu.school.speech.class.comm-studies.c30 Subject: Re: resonse to responses Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:03:01 -0600 A mild clarification of the current grading standard: In article danaf-1402970300290001@axo218070.res-hall.nwu.edu, Dana Friedlander wrote:
The current grading standard is not competitive; it is not based on a
curve; everyone can get an "A," and for different excellences. In fact,
the reason that I put "individuality" in as a criterion is so that a
person who makes only one post in the quarter, but that one of startling
eloquence, can get an "A." (This would fulfill the romantic value of
Dissent. At least two of you have already done it.)
Jean Goodwin.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I gather that Dana is strongly opposed to the
grading of our newsgroup. I can see her point, but I do believe that
participation is a valuable asset to our evaluations in this course, just
as we are graded in discussions in other lit, etc. classes. My problem
lies with the way the TAs actually went about grading, ie, a bunch of
roundabout letters that don't seem to add up to any real reflection of our
work.
In an ideal world, Professor Goodwin's suggestion that a bunch or random
insults would be enough to "encourage thoughtfulness" in this newsgroup
might succeed. Ideal world, mind you. Let's face it -- something (like
grades) are necessary incentive for particpation. Participation is a
substantial part of our grade in this class -- I'm skeptical that we'll get
rid of the entire grading system, so why don't we try to reform it and get
the most from these postings as we can?
Must get to class now before I'm late- |
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